Reminder that the Democrats would be considered even further right than the Conservative Party in Canada. And Canada itself is still considered pretty right wing with no big leftist parties (NDP is still center-right at best)
Yeah but Canada been allowing USA to get away with its bullshit around the world for the last 300 years for its own benefit so their hands aren’t quite as clean as you may think.
You’re completely correct and I for one am hoping the recent events finally get Canada to break ties with the US so we stop enabling them. We also have our share of atrocities separate from the US that we need to atone for, namely the treatment of Indigenous peoples and the environment.
From an outsider’s perspective it seems like the Democrats behave like that because the US electorate is genuinely right-wing and need pandered to.
It really isn’t that right-wing, especially economically, but there’s a lot of factors that make it seem that way. First is that it did go through a large, neoliberal shift in the 80s during the Regan years. When the economy crashed in the early 90s, the Democrats decided that, instead of returning to their New Deal roots, they would also run on neoliberal policies. The Republicans moved further right because of that, especially on social issues, and then the Rachet Effect described in the meme really started to ramp up.
Couple this with a lot of political illiteracy among the public in general, and you get a lot of people who actually don’t know what they believe and default to partisanship. If you poll people if they support gun control, you will get a very negative response, but if you break gun control into individual measures (longer waiting periods, mandatory background checks, magazine capacity limits, etc.) you get much more support. It’s the same on almost every issue; people don’t support a, “big government takeover,” of the healthcare system, but they broadly support Medicare for all. There’s a somewhat famous picture of a guy holding a sign that says something like, “Get Your Government Hands Off My Social Security,” that I think sums up this ignorance pretty well.
This attitude isn’t limited to the right, either. If you asked a Democrat “Who deregulated Wall Street?” they’d probably tell you Regan, Bush, or the other Bush. In actuality, the most significant deregulation, which lead directly to the 2008 financial collapse, was Clinton’s repeal of Glass-Steagal. Liberals think that Obama made significant progress on regulating Wall Street, but what he put in place was nothing compared to the deregulation that proceeded it.
Citizens United and the rise of mega donors also plays a pretty significant role in moving the parties away from policies that the general population want and towards the goals of a few oligarchs, but this reply is already way too long, so TL;DR: the country got pretty right-wing under Regan, both parties became more right-wing as a result, the population has become much more left-leaning since income inequality/cost of living went way up, but the parties are still both right-wing and most people are too ignorant to understand that.
Good comment, but this bugs me:
*Reagan
Regan was Reagan’s chief of staff for his last couple of years in office.
Holy shit, I don’t know when I started misspelling Reagan’s name, but now I feel like I need to go through thousands of replies and figure it out, because this has definitely been going on for months.
Pandering only works if you’re delivering more of what your audience wants than your opponent. It yields no votes from right wingers when they can choose fascists and get more of what they want.
But it does alienate people who would otherwise be your natural allies.
Nope, when you poll on individual policies, they’re way to the left of the democrats.
The democrats showcase healthcare bill wasn’t “subsidies for employer-based health insurance, that you have no idea what it’s going to cost and have to buy at a specific time of year by going to one of 50 sites provided by your state at a specific time of year and filling out a bunch of forms or face a tax penalty, with a sliding scale based on income, marriage status, and other factors” because that’s more popular than “free healthcare”.
Same if you ask americans about Biden (and Harris’s) policies of “loan forgiveness for PELL grant recipients up to X dollars depending on age, loan repayment status, income, parent’s income, and whether you were born on a prime-numbered date” vs “free college”
The democrats compromise their bills, not because there’s a bunch of “moderates” who are exactly between democrat and republican who will vote for democrats if they promote garbage versions of progressive bills that don’t actually help anyone, but because they know those versions are less likely to pass and be easier to chip away at, and therefore won’t piss off their billionaire patrons.
If you’re getting your perspective from billionaire-owned news, (which no fault to you, is most major news-sources) it’s no wonder that you’d think that. By the way, that’s the exact same narrative the “billionaire-bullypulpit” push here in the States, even though it isn’t so.
These politicians and the media have the same lock step lie. They say they’re moving to the right “because their voters are”, but they’re just gaslighting folks as cover for what they were doing anyway; whatever their rich donors tell them.
Our government behaves like that because it formally takes bribes.
If you look at the real issues ~60% want homeless fed and to help people back on their feet, healthcare and school to be affordable to everyone.
~40% want all those things, but they only want them for themselves and their families.
We’re at about 60/40 POS.
I’d say 60/40 is way off provably more like 80/20
That’s where I want it to be. But I’m worried it’s not
Eh if you ask any random person if they’d rather kill or house the homeless people I’m pretty sure they would say they’d prefer the latter
That’s just a strawman, the same goes for killing or raping people.
The people themselves aren’t entirely compassionless, But bathed in the propaganda, they’re told that the homeless or homeless because they’re bad, awful people. Most of the right-wing world view is designed to embrace greed by turning victims into Boogeyman.
You’re buried in propaganda if you think 40% of Americans would rather kill homeless people rather than house them
Not at all what I said
Where do you get your opinion of Americans? The answer doesn’t’ matter because every media outlet, including social media, is owned by billionaires. Lemmy being the possible exception, but don’t tell me you get the impression that Americans are right wing from here.
Doesn’t it seem weird how many think pieces about Trump voters there have been in the past decade? I’ve never seen an article about an Anarchist. Not a single article about someone who didn’t vote. Meanwhile, every algorithm takes you to the furthest right content you’ll accept.
The majority voted for trump, a fascist. Idk.
If you tell me you are a good person, I will require evidence. If you tell me you are a bad person, I will trust your word.
No, the majority of white people and the majority of people who voted voted for Trump. That is a big difference. As much as some liberals want to say “Not voting is the same as voting for Trump”, that is not true.
Weird focus on white people if it adds nothing to your point.
Not voting is certainly not an indication that they didn’t want trump and when dealing with a far right fascist, that is interesting. But we all can have some copium, so that we don’t need to accept that a shocking amount of people are dumb as rocks and that consequently they don’t quite care about stuff like due process, and don’t mind a fascist Leader.
At some point, we need to accept that currently the general public is conservative because they know the old ways and care too little to learn the new ones but get scared of change.
If the shoe fits, wear it. It’s weird that you think my comment “focused” on white people, and also weird that you’re trying to blame all Americans when Republicans are 90% white and the only group that the majority of which ever voted for Republicans.
Republicans are a white problem. There is no other way to put it. Sorry I’m not sorry if you’re unused to being talked about collectively., but not doing so is burying the lede. Every time you said “people”, it would be more accurate if you said “white people”, but you don’t even understand why you don’t do that.
I think it is a weird focus because it was irrelevant to your point, and the discussion at large. I could point out that American christians are far more likely to support trump than non-christians, but why? When we talk about the idea of the us electorate (that you chose to equate to american in your comment to the other guy. So I will say American too)
The collective in question was defined, “why do you think that about Americans?” To move the focus to white Americans is odd in that context. Imagine I would have said, “well republicans are far right”. You would have told me that we don’t talk about republicans but Americans. That I couldn’t and shouldn’t judge a collective by a subgroup. Yet that is what your focus on white Americans does in this conversation. It is not a bad observation, it is just a weird focus in this conversation.
And yes white Americans have voted trump in power, 61% of Americans identify as “white (not mixed)”. 71% of Americans identify as “white”. That is a huge part of the us electorate. If 57% (according to exit polls) of 71% of the us electorate vote for a fascist, of course, that is relevant and it should play a part in how I judge the us electorate.
But in the end of the day, all of that is more complicated than needed to answer the question, why do I believe the us electorate is far right. Trump won the popularity vote. You can break it up. But then we aren’t talking about your initial question, why do you think that about the us electorate? Instead we would talk about e.g. the white us electorate, certainly worth while exploring but not the topic at hand.
If you are unhappy with that, then don’t frame it as you do. I am answering your question precisely. Ask me a different question if you want to talk about a different topic. But don’t dismiss my answer because you don’t like it and claim that your comment didn’t focus onto white Americans and that the majority of the us electorate didn’t vote for trump while blaming white Americans (the absolute majority of the us electorate) for voting for trump.
I am sorry but the us is mostly white and fascist. That is what informs my opinion on us citizens as a collective.
Edit: you also seem very offended by the idea that I judge the us electorate based on a popular vote, saying that not everyone is that way. While happily blaming white Americans based on exit polls, ignoring that not everyone is that way. That is odd. Why can’t I judge the us electorate but you can judge the white us electorate?
Neoconservatism ruled the last 40 years but it’s not even a “conservative” doctrine. It’s a bipartisan Zionist foreign policy. Trump is a knee jerk response to Dems alienating people with centrist social opinions, Republicans shipping jobs overseas and both of them sustaining pointless forever wars.
Republicans shipping jobs overseas
I got news for you buddy. Look up who crafted and championed NAFTA
I’m being intentionally simplistic. Of course Dems are in on the grift of hollowing out the country.
Yeah its not just republicans doing that
Bought a lot of European stock during the trump crash so…
THANK YOU COMMUNISTS FOR NOT VOTING 😁😁😁😁
6% total increase in a mooooooooooonth lalalallalala
Ahhhhhhh bonjour mademoiselle… mon chérie… Ma femme pour toujours 🌝
Republicans aren’t 100% gun ho about trumps recent (and easily foreseen) fuck ups.
If we replace First-past-the-post voting, we could easily see the republican party get replaced with a more reasonable conservative party like the democrats.
Plus, you know, screaming at people unrepresented in government to vote for your preferred political party isn’t actually democracy.
If Alaska can do it, so can your state!
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
Before you reply to me directly please understand:
- The US overthrew democracy in the country I am from
- The US installed a fascist king with secret police that terrorized my family
- Once kicked out the US supported a dictator in the neighboring country where the other half of my family lived
- The US funded both sides of a war between my country and the neighboring one that led to mass civilian deaths, one side directly by giving a dictator weapons and cash and the other side clandestinely thru laundering money by selling drugs in Latin America
- Once they lost that war turned on the dictator in the neighboring country and invented reasons to illegally invade. Twice
- Toppled the regime and left a power vacuum that consumed all my family that lived there for literally hundreds of years.
- Created material conditions in the country my family is from that forced them to leave or die
You Americans are not the good guys, your country and government is evil to its core.
i’m intrigued
is this country Iran?
who are the good guys?
lol i can say almost all of this for myself, and it wouldn’t narrow it down where i’m from. fuck the us empire and its apologists.
you don’t think Harris would have done a better job than Trump?
A better job at overthrowing their government and installing right wing dictators?
Removed by mod
Have you considered being born to a wealthy white family in the West? I hear it’s much easier
Yeah, like, come on! Being born in the Middle East? Rookie mistake!
Or anywhere in south America, or eastern Europe, or most of Asia.
Fuck we really are the baddies
I would try to guess your country but there are too many that the US has done this to
Point 1 definitely has some 50+ countries in it, but point 2 almost immediately leads to Iran, who suffered a coup in the 1950s because the then president wanted to nationalize the oil reserves.
Point 3 is the rise of Saddam. Point 4 is the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s and the Iran-Contra kerfuffle. Point 5 is the two invasions of Iraq by the USA, 1991 and 2003, the latter leading directly to point 6.
My guess is iran
OP said it was in Latin America tho
No, the CIA was selling drugs in latin america…
Iraq was invaded twice
Yeah, but you’re a foreigner, so your life doesn’t’ matter.
worse, they’ll say that he’s privileged for not being a gay in trump’s america, since that’s perhaps the worst thing that could happen to a human being.
Removed by mod
From what I’ve seen it’s more like republicans fuck everything up, then democrats come in and un-fuck everything. Then the democrats introduce good policy that Republicans take credit for. Rince and repeat.
“Genocide is good policy”
I never said I was a fan of genocide. I am and always will be a democrat even though I can’t vote. Maybe you should read my comment again since I think you’re reading it the other way around.
That’s right, everybody knows that the left and the right are perfectly equally bad, and the act of voting to stop the bleeding and starting a revolution are mutually exclusive /s
And then after years of this nonsense, people wonder how the poor voter turnout that got the fascist elected happened.
You believe the Democrats are ‘the left’?
You can’t stop the bleeding, liberals are permascratched now
The act of stabbing your artery in order to stop the gangrene you got from repeatedly stabbing your arteries is indeed just as bad as dipping your gangrenous tissue into your open wounds to spread it faster. Neither make you better. Neither is a true stopping point.
Or in other words, Dems are the clutch and reps are the gas. You have no brakes. You might be able to stop without a brake, maybe even stay stopped. But shits going to get worse no matter which you choose since you’re actively ignoring the brakes.
I like the metaphor of a shipwrecked sailor clinging to a piece of flotsam in the cold water a mile from shore. He’s losing body heat, and eventually hypothermia will set in and he will drown. But if he lets go and starts to swim for shore, he’ll lose body heat even faster, use up his energy, and he probably won’t make it. The “harm reduction” argument says that he should reduce his heat loss, and stay clinging to the flotsam. He’s safe right now, while attempting to get to shore is difficult and dangerous.
Of course, by the time that the fallacy of that strategy becomes apparent (*gestures at current events*), he’s too cold and weak to even attempt the swim.
who said anything about the left?
2024 election was second highest turnout in 20 years wasn’t it?
There’s so much Democrat bootlicking in here, the comment section smells of wet leather and shoe polish.
If you can’t draw the line at genocide, you’re trash. No exceptions.
If you can’t vote against fascism you will get genocide every time.
That’s the point. Both the Dem and GOP candidate were full blown, genocidal fascists.
Yep, no difference whatsoever. /S
If you really believe that then I guess you think nothing was lost.
That’s just an accidental admission that you supported the Democrats because of what you had to lose. You didn’t notice the one who had already lost everything.
Electoral politics sucks that way. If all you care about is a single issue, there might be no good option.
I don’t think the applies to Gaza and Palestinians but plenty of people do.
But presidential elections are not about a single issue, unless you are short sighted or it’s your life on the line. The rest of us have to make a judgement about a whole lot of lives and some of us are too self rightious to think clearly.
Genocide is not a “single issue.” For genocide to be allowed to happen, there has to be a mountain of other issues.
You are a disgusting person for hand waving genocide like this. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Honestly, I think the same of you. If you are American, You can’t see the forest for the trees and you voted or allowed the election of someone that was even worse for the palestinians, Americans, and the world.
I’m sure the people being tortured in Cecot in Elsalvador take comfort that at least the Democrats got punished at the polls for their support of Israel.
The Ukrainian families that lost their loved ones when the US cut off intelligence sharing for 48 hours and let the Russians get the jump on exposed troops.
The thousands of US government workers that lost their jobs to DOGE can rest easy knowing that at least Harris didn’t get elected after supporting genocide.
Nobodies life was saved, the isrealies continue their ethnic cleansing, with the full throated support of the US president, but you get to sleep soundly knowing All the death, torture, and suffering is worth it.
Shame.
And if you vote for genocide, you are voting for fascism.
If you can’t see the difference then I guess all flags are swastikas to you.
It’s a shame you’re unable to see which flags are swastikas while you go on supporting them.
Well looks like not voting Democrat got you even more genocide and a president openly advocating it.
Seems like the same amount as a year ago
even more genocide
Nope, you were just pretending it wasn’t happening when your team did it. In that sense, I’m glad that the president is being open about it, it means you libs can’t deny it as easily
My team? I am not even American. I am just saying that while Democrats werent doing much to prevent the war crimes in Gaza they at least did a little bit. Meanwhile, the Republicans are actively cheering Israel on and deporting protesters.
weren’t doing much
hey they made an aid pier that got used to distribute a tiny amount of supplies before it got used to launch an Israeli massacre and then broke apart under its own weight
while Democrats werent doing much to prevent the war crimes in Gaza they at least did a little bit.
Nope. The democrats weren’t just not doing anything to stop the genocide (which you’re trying to downplay as just “war crimes”), they were actively helping commit the genocide.
You’re lying to protect people committing genocide. You are a genocide denier
Meanwhile, the Republicans are actively cheering Israel on and deporting protesters.
At least they’re fucking honest! That’s less loathsome than you dishonest fuckers, who are just as genocidal but are also liers. You are more evil than them
Whats this then?
lmao some deep research going on there
More than any of you have provided.
A screenshot of google search
I see you have no interest in arguing in good faith
Biden pressured Israel to stop under threat of withholding weapons and funds. And Israel ignored him, then Trump was elected and even encouraged Israel to press further.
In case you haven’t noticed, https://time.com/7212848/trump-gaza-own/ and https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-palestinians-leave-gaza-us-rebuild/story?id=118463249
I’m not defecting to Trump. I’m a socialist. I’m not supporting either of your genocidal fascists. Both gotta go.
So the solution in this case, would be to not vote? Think about this, if both sides have the same views on a topic, but they aren’t totally the same on every topic, then voters should pick them based on stuff they disagree on. This is actually entirely obvious
Voters should vote for those who represent their interests. If any candidate is endorsing (let alone committing) genocide, and that is a violation of a given voter’s interests (and it damn well better be), then that voter should not vote for that candidate, period. If there are only 2 options and both are genocidal, then neither should be rewarded with a vote. You want “harm reduction”? Then vote for PSL - if your liberal obsession with voting has convinced you that voting has any power whatsoever, then don’t use it to reward genocide, use that power to say no to it entirely. If your position is that “we live under a system where we are getting genocide no matter what” then rather than going “well, there’s a chance this one might be one iota less genocide” maybe start coming to the correct conclusion that the system is indeed irredeemably rotten and rigged FOR genocide, that it is designed to be this way which makes all of that system your enemy, not just the orange team that says the quiet part out loud too much, but also the one that smiles politely and gives the right lip service while literally, not figuratively, but very much actually mass murdering children. Yep, that blue team is your enemy too. So now it’s time to get down to the hard work of building alternative power structures through organization in direct defiance of the genocidal machine, having done away with your petty red(orange)/blue team false dichotomy. Join us in actually working for a better world rather than tossing up your hands and voting for the genocidaires that cry crocodile tears and pretend it’s such a sad state of affairs as they massacre little kids for power and profit. You aren’t actually beholden to support them. They aren’t the “lesser” evil, they’re just another piece of the entire evil machine!
If you boil the entirety political action one can take to a binary choice between 2 Imperialist parties, then you’d have a point. To get to that point, though, you have had to fundamentally ignore the entire argument about voting being perhaps the weakest form of expressing political power one can do.
While voting, the only votes that matter are for the 2 leading parties. A third party vote is equivalent to not voting. Outside of the voting booth, there’s more you can do to push what you actually want. Doing stuff other than voting doesn’t mean you have to completely waste your vote too.
Third party votes do a number of things, from signaling disapproval for the electoral system in general, to supporting parties that one of the lead parties will need to bend towards to capture votes.
Also, only a handful of states even matter, most states aren’t swing states. In these non-swing states, no vote matters. This is part of why voter apathy is so high.
Nobody in power gives a crap about a protest vote, If you spend that time protesting elsewhere you’ll make a bigger impact.
I had planned to vote for Claudia De La Cruz, but the Democrats sued her off of the ballot in my state.
But they won’t let us take control at the ballot box. The capitalists will turn the guns on us before they hand over their power, even if we followed their rules.
Also, the Dems are working with the GOP to ban ranked choice voting nation wide.
I had planned to vote for Claudia De La Cruz, but the Democrats sued her off of the ballot in my state.
So what? You can write in a candidate. It’s not like it would make any difference either way.
So we’re just going to placidly accept that only two parties can have ballot access in this country?
The thing to fight for is ranked choice voting, or some other method without a spoiler effect. Until you have that, the only thing that matters in the ballot box is the top two candidates. Anything else is equivalent to not voting. I’m saying you should make the choices that have the best actual effect, not make a worthless protest vote to make yourself feel good.
Whataboutism. And to defend genocide too
Sounds a lot like the “both sides are the same” argument with more steps. If people voted left wing then the politicians would go left wing.
republicans never vote for democrats, yet democrats never stop chasing their votes.
the left wing are far more reliable voters for democrats than the republicans whose votes centrists envy. And their votes are actually gettable. You know their issues.
They really are the same though and no this isn’t some demoralization post. People always get pissed on here because they think it’s propaganda or something. There is no meaningful difference between Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell outside of the performatives. It’s a joke.
Trans people: am I a joke to you?
Seriously. Harris would have been a lot better for me personally. My life is not a performance.
Every trans person I know hated Harris throwing them under the bus to appease Republican hillbillies who would never vote for Harris.
And they also hated Harris’s treatment of trans inmates, forcing them to be with their sex, not their gender. Which got them killed.
But sure, I guess her record for years and the months leading up to the election don’t matter. Maybe she would have protected them in office.
Oh wait no she said she’d follow state laws. The ones that enable enmass dysphoria and social murder.
Are you really going to lecture me about how I was just as unsafe under Biden?
Harris swung to the left as a senator and was vice president to the most progressive administration in history.
I live in a red state and a year ago I had the consolation that at least the white house had my back.
It has your back by… Not protecting you or me or your friends. Or not pushing Congress to keep Title IX in place and expanding LGBTQ rights.
Trump is worse but let’s not pretend that Harris loves us.
Agreed, sometimes, basically all the time, you have to choose between the bad and worse options.
As a nonbinary person myself, you’d think trans people wouldn’t throw the entire global south under the bus to keep themselves (and by proxy, this system) safe and secure, but rather stand against the system that causes all this death. It’s no surprise that reaping the benefits of exported fascism will eventually bring that fascism home.
Voting for trump or not voting isn’t taking a stand, it’s watching the flames rise and refusing to fight the flames.
Voting is a tool the capitalists have provided to you because they know that either option will give them a win. I vote because local positions are important, but federal positions have been pre-approved by our abusers. If the ruling class has convinced you that voting is the most important action you can take to stop fascism, you’ve fallen for the exact propaganda they wanted you to believe. You don’t stop a house fire through politics- you throw water on the immediate problem. Direct action is responsible for nearly all of our civil rights gains we have made in this country.
I never said voting is the most important thing to do. Voting is the bare ass minimum. It’s (usually) easy and zero risk.
Actual progress nearly always requires direct action. Women’s suffrage involved firebombs. Abolition took a whole ass war in the US and the new deal happened after strikes and outright war all over the continent.
Voting is not sufficient it’s just the easiest possible way to give leadership information.
Focusing on voting over direct action where one has a <1% impact on things over the far more impactful thing kind of implies you think it is the most important thing. My apologies if that wasn’t your meaning. It just comes across like “of course we have global warming when Jerry down the road didn’t recycle that one time”, ignoring the blatant destruction of our planet by oligarchs. Yes, Harris would’ve likely been better for me as well, but I’m done thinking that sacrificing others for my own comfort is justifiable because of my gender identity.
Neither the Dems nor the Reps are left. Further, that isn’t how electoralism works, parties don’t change their position if they recieve mass support, but if they don’t, and only up to the extent their donors allow. In the US, this means Capitalists, ergo the Dems will never be a Leftist party.
Dems could become a left wing party if that’s where voters wanted them. They would lose their donors, yes, so the reps would become the much better funded party.
But if voters voted for left wing candidates there is nothing the donors or centrist politicians could do about it. It would be a generational project, winning primaries and general elections, but it could be done.
This is wrong. Even a compromise candidate like Bernie was colluded against, the party will only act in its own interests. It isn’t a democratic party, it’s one fully oriented towards resisting radical change.
Yes the Democratic party is oriented towards resisting change. You act like the people have no power, no say. If you think the votes are rigged please explain how.
Voters do have a say. Republican voters wanted someone more extreme than milqtoast mitt Romney, and they got it in Trump. They wanted republican congresspeople that would support Trump instead of obstruct him like McCain. They got them.
Democratic leadership can make it hard for leftists to win, but they aren’t changing vote totals. If Americans voted for leftists in primaries for mayor and city council there would eventually only be leftists running for Congress and eventually a leftist would win the nominee for president.
Money is a tool, it’s not mind control.
In 2016, the Clinton campaign shut down polling favoring Bernie. In 2020, the campaign was swaying towards Bernie, but all of the moderates dropped out and rallied around Biden. The primaries aren’t truly democratic.
Even if a Leftist made it to office, the party would not rally around them. The entire system is designed against change, and the preservation of the interests of Capital.
Really, you’re making the case for third party voting, as technically a third party win is possible, and would allow a Leftist in.
Moving the Democratic party would be easier than electing a third party. It just doesn’t happen in a year or decade.
I have seen no evidence of that.
Voters do have a say.
That’s why I vote third party.
Dems could become a left wing party if that’s where voters wanted them.
They do want them to be, and Dems proved they’d rather lose an election then let that happen.
Lose an election to who
Voters.
Democratic leadership can schedule events or platform people or even change the rules but voters get to vote at the end of the day. There are more voters than leadership. And if voters didn’t vote for centrists in primaries there wouldn’t be any centrists in office.
Glad to see you endorsing voting third party
Did not say that. If everyone kept voting left then both parties would move left.
When both parties are right, and most voters stay home, isn’t that the same thing?
You keep talking about “voting left” as if voters are given that option. Harris could have run on corralling big business. Does anyone think that “Almost as hard on immigrants as Republicans” was a better platform than running against billionaires?
Yeah, so people should vote left, which means voting third party
LMAO
What a shit show. (Not an American, btw)
I wonder, how many “both sides” Americans who didn’t vote (or voted third party) expected Democrats to win anyway. This way they could feel smug for not “voting for genocide” while still getting the clearly better option.
Now they have to pretend they didn’t fuck up and act as if having a “protect the status quo” democrat wouldn’t have been any better.
I vote 3rd party always have always will. Complaining about doing the thing we always do just doesn’t make sense to me
As an lndian, l know to what kind of human beings we hand over our sovereignty.
There is nothing more cringe than seeing americans debating wheter they’re fascist or not due to X or Y politician rhetoric when they have been dropping bombs abroad for their entire existence.
I’m not American but there’s so many socialists on here refusing to vote for the lesser evil because they don’t offer the right candidates and advocating revolution.
why not take a page from the right’s clearly successful playbook and vote more in local politics and primaries. Maga managed to turn the republicans into exactly what they wanted this way, but the American left just sits there waiting for someone to start a revolution.
well I understand it might be late now and elections might not do much going forward, but jesus it’s like the only option you guys saw is voting for whoever the parties put toward or revolution.
The Democrats suck but there’s a huge difference between voting for boring corporatists and 100% concentrated evil. Don’t make me tap the chart.
Another reminder that BlueMaga don’t consider Palestinians human; their complete extermination is just “boring corporatism”
boring corporatists just committed genocide
The “boring corporatists” in germany put Hitler in power btw
“boring corporatists” are destroying our planet and making it unlivable.
So do 100% concentrated evil, but they also wipe their arses with the constitution, set up concentration camps, and literally ruin the political and economic position of the US.
The constitution of burgerland is actually intended for wiping your ass. Stop making the republicans look good
An unlivable planet is worse than all those things
They are also doing that too.
Thanks for agreeing with me that on the biggest most important issues both sides are the same
Are you conflating corporatism and concentration camps because they start with the same letter or are you really this fucking stupid?
Concentration camps have been a thing for most of the US’ existence, have become super widespread in recent decades (as in, the children in cages) and they’re completely bipartisan. At one point, there were twice as many children detained under Biden than at Trump’s highest.
You might not have known it until now (doubtful) but if I know democrats, you’re gonna handwave it away even though you no longer have that excuse. Democrats are no more than the left wing of fascism and so is anyone who treats these abuses as irrelevant distractions from the real issues, that is, the comforts of white people.
Ruining the planet for everyone is worse than anything else and on that issue both sides are the same
If you can’t see the difference between a centrist party and a far-right fascist one, then I hold no hope for your political literacy going forward.
I can see that Biden held twice children at the border at one time than Trump at his highest. I can see that weapons and money to Israel skyrocketed under Biden. I can see that Obama alone prosecuted more whistleblowers than the US had prosecuted in its entire history.
If you only count it as fascism when it starts affecting white people half as much as it was affecting the rest of us then you can’t be surprised we consider you just as much of a fascist as them.
Both parties are ruining the planet, we agree on that, let’s leave it there
What’s the huge difference in outcome? Why is voting the only type of action being considered?
And there’s a huge difference between fifty degrees below zero and absolute zero. But both are lethal to humans if exposed to it for a night.
You think you just said something wise, but there is a huge difference. One affords you more time, 2 or 3 hours don’t matter much if you know you’re dead.
But you’re not, you can act. Progress is haltingly slow because people do not want retroactive talking points. New and shiny is entertaining. Our worlds have grown too vast, too fast. Legislation cannot catch up with the world they have awakened upon the 1s and 0s.
The 3rd party is you, you can act.
Buying time for what? What can we make the Dems deliver on that will take us out of this state where we’re constantly having to vote to avoid fascism and nothing else?
Do you think happiness is reached and then let go? You have to clench it and never let go.
Sadly life is not so simple, we like freedoms and so we must uphold them. They are a structure of ideas that you have to maintain. If you cannot even maintain the now, how can you make progress, how can you heal?
You buy time for the hope you can savor life once more.
This is why it’s a waste of time working with Democrats because when you ask them for concrete goals all you get is philosophical sounding nonsense
No one genuinely asked me for concrete goals, he asked what am I buying time for. I buy time for myself, my loved ones, and those I wish to support.
If you want concrete goals, it’s simple, but then again you think me a democrat. I do not have a voice in voting and you focus on political parties when I have named none.
What do you do every day? I endure and travel, I walk and talk to those you overlook. I share my bounty with my neighbor and teach where I can. I endure pain so others don’t.
You think Jesus a democrat? He was the first recorded instance of an antifascist. He literally calls the Roman Legionnaires pigs with the demon Legion. I wish to replace it all but I am not one with that power, I am just one who can endure suffering without being clouded by hate and only love.
I am sorry for your suffering, but I have no power aside my voice and kindness. Yet, to you of hate it is no power.
No one genuinely asked me for concrete goals
This was my original response to you:
Buying time for what? What can we make the Dems deliver on that will take us out of this state where we’re constantly having to vote to avoid fascism and nothing else?
You expect me to read the whole book you wrote but you can’t read past word 4 of my post?
You don’t get to do a genocide and then say the other guy is “100% concentrated evil.”
No matter what action you took in this last election. You were voting for genocide.
- Republican - genocide
- Democrat - genocide with less fascism.
- No vote - The two major parties are pro-genocide so you are genocide by default.
- Third party - none of the third party candidates had a chance so genocide by default.
So accusing anyone of voting for genocide is kind of silly because everyone did. No one really had a choice.
You voted for genocide and are now trying to absolve your conscience by claiming you had no choice, and that in reality everyone did what you did.
No, a lot of people didn’t do what you did.
We all did, we all voted for it. We didn’t all vote for fascism though. That was a you thing probably.
You looked at a party committing genocide – the worst thing people can do to one another – and made the decision to co-sign that. I voted for someone who opposed genocide.
No matter how desperately you want to water down the choice you made, it’s not the same as the one I made. You don’t actually have to shuffle along with genocide because Democrats lied about some half-assed loan forgiveness or something.
Assuming what is in heart incorrectly doesn’t counter my facts.
I didn’t vote for the Dems because of loan forgiveness, I voted for them because they were the least fascist option.
It’s ok though, I understand you are struggling with how your vote supported rapidity brining fascists to power. The large amount of death caused by the loss of USAID. Sending of innocent people to El Salvador concentration camp. Autistic people being marked as non-human. And look at that, it isn’t even half way though the first year of this term.
Literally, your only hope right now for a good outcome is if soo many people die that we 180 out of this with a revolution that somehow doesn’t result in another authoritarian being in charge soon. Seriously, shit is soo fucked right now, I have become an accelerationist.
It’s ok though, I understand you are struggling
What do you think you are accomplishing by being such an insufferable ass?
Democrats should be trying to win back voters like me – voters who have supported lots of Democrats in the past, but who will not support genocide. They (and you) are instead telling those voters to fuck off. They (and you) make a lot of noise about wanting to win elections, but have no strategy besides browbeating voters, a strategy that just failed.
