To this day, she remembers the racing thoughts, the instant nausea, the hairs prickling up on her legs, the sweaty palms. She had shared a photograph of herself in her underwear with a boy she trusted and, very soon, it had been sent around the school and across her small home town, Aberystwyth, Wales. She became a local celebrity for all the wrong reasons. Younger kids would approach her laughing and ask for a hug. Members of the men’s football team saw it – and one showed someone who knew Davies’s nan, so that’s how her family found out.
Her book, No One Wants to See Your D*ck, takes a deep dive into the negatives. It covers Davies’s experiences in the digital world – that includes cyberflashing such as all those unsolicited dick pics – as well as the widespread use of her images on pornography sites, escort services, dating apps, sex chats (“Ready for Rape? Role play now!” with her picture alongside it). However, the book also shines a light on the dark online men’s spaces, what they’re saying, the “games” they’re playing. “I wanted to show the reality of what men are doing,” says Davies. “People will say: ‘It’s not all men’ and no, it isn’t, but it also isn’t a small number of weirdos on the dark web in their mum’s basements. These are forums with millions of members on mainstream sites such as Reddit, Discord and 4chan. These are men writing about their wives, their mums, their mate’s daughter, exchanging images, sharing women’s names, socials and contact details, and no one – not one man – is calling them out. They’re patting each other on the back.”
Pro tip - I’ll absolutely snitch on the guys I know that you probably shouldn’t date. Maybe you have a male friend that’s the same.
This just reminded me of the wonderful responses from these guys.
Well, that kind of supports my theory here.
It’s shitty that there’s not much you can do to actually intervene. Usually they don’t come straight out and admit they’re a misogynistic trashbag, it’s just a strong vibe.
My sister dated a sociopath. He was a master manipulator and cheated on and with every woman he wanted. This afgan muslim wad the biggest hypocrit I ever met.
He preyed on young women. Especiaally the vulnerable ones who suffered from loneliness, insecurities and/or depression. His charms did not work as well on me, because I’m not attracted to men. He did not like me and tried to ridicule me, cross my boundaries and set up my sister against me. Tried to slut shame me and implying I slept around in engineering. Trust me… no amount of axe bodyspray combats the overfilled lecturing room in summer. You could feel and taste the smell of men when entering. I have sensed every pheromone a man can produce, and none has a positive effect on me. And even if I did fuck every guy in engineering, what’s his point? He believed in polygamy. If he gets to fondle an theatre of tits, I should be able to ride every dick I want (with consent ofc).
My best friend was a guy. And the sociopathic pig would tell him misogynistic bs. About how to play multiple women at a once. My friend did not tell me anything about what the swine said. After all, bro’s before ho’s. And I was apparently the ho rather than the bro.
Anyhow. My warnings weren’t taken seriously, and 3 people I knew have had affairs with him. 2 of which were barely 19 and had a history of parental neglect and fear of abandonment.
Had my friend bothered to tell me, I may have had enough to convince my sister at least to cut ties with him. Instead, she become more and more miserable and doubtful of herself. Trying to break it off, but not being assertive enough to enforce it. Thank our crappy mother for that.
The pig also had a lawsuit against him for sexual msiconduct. He was a taxi driver and an incident had taken place where two women left his cab and hit the front of his car with a heel. Leaving a dent. Or so the story went. His brother lost his medical licience because there were too many sexual harassment claims against him in his dental practice. His family is known for misogyny. Fucker lied about his name because of it and refused to introduce her to his family. Reason he gave had to do with his muslim backround, but in reality, he was already engaged to another woman.
I hope she is okay. I doubt it though.
My sister recovered from the ordeal. Woman no. 3 cut ties with us and we don’t know what happened. We assume she did so out if shame. Which isn’t surprising because they all had an affair with the same guy. Fucking dumbass. Woman no. 2 was the most vulnerable, but is doing well now. Being disgusted with herself for how she acted.
I am no longer friends with the guy I used to hang out with almost daily. After he kept saying misogynistic bs and telling me he could rape me while I wouldn’t be able to do defend myself.
Men cannot be counted on for snitching, even if someone’s safety depends on it.
If you imagine some kind of multi year “relationship education” instead of just sex ed where all kids at ~14 learn about pathological psychology and all the ways people can manipulate you or fuck you over I imagine it would be far less off a problem.
There are some pretty awful takes in these replies. It seems a fair number of men here at least vacation near the “manosphere”.
Yeah right now Lemmy is a niche appeal social media site with a minor technical barrier to entry, so it’s basically the ideal environment for toxic users to spawn. World is getting better as more regular-human users are driven off reddit, and there’s obviously blahaj and similar instances, but yeah it’s pretty rough here. Lots of “Anyone who’d choose the bear over me is just an idiot, I’d never completely miss the point like a bear would” types.
This take is even more useless. A part of the idiotic flora of parasites that follows it around
This is what happens when you let your son’s role models be sociopathic pieces of shit like the Tate brothers, Fresh and Fit, and the assorted fucking losers on Youtube who still use “SJW” like it’s 2015.
I know a lot of guys in the comments are saying they don’t see it so they don’t have the opportunity to call it out. And some of those guys are making good points! These communities probably don’t interact much with men that treat women with respect.
But I also wonder how much of that stuff happens and they don’t realize it’s harmful to women. Obviously sharing photos isn’t okay so that’s an easy one to call out.
It’s not a man’s fault that he doesn’t see it, necessarily. You don’t have the same experiences as women and it just doesn’t occur to you as often. Women are on alert 24/7.
Kinda like that thing about the number of guys who feel safe walking to their car at night vs the number of women. (I know some men are anxious in that scenario too, but nearly ALL women are.)
When I was an elementary school aged kid, I was afraid to play outside at my grandmas house because a man drove by yelling cat calls. This actually happened a couple times growing up.
At 14, a random man followed me home from school.
In my college there was a flyer in the restroom about how something like 1 in 6 women will experience sexual assault or rape. But really that’s just the number reported.
Every single woman I know has experienced sexual assault or rape of some kind. (I didn’t ask my coworkers to be fair).
That’s bonkers.
But I do appreciate those of you that are trying to be better! The comments here are reassuring and give hope for the future!
I don’t interact with anybody who does this. Really, outside of my wife and my close family I don’t interact with anybody. Partially due to being assaulted multiple times, my anxiety goes through the roof.
It’s horrible how some people treat each other, but understand just because I’m perceived to be part of a specific gender doesn’t mean I have meaningful opportunity to do anything about it. I’m just a human, and while I agree other humans are often bad, it’s out of my scope to do anything really impactful. I understand what is happening. It’s much much worse than you state. It’s worse in ways I probably would get banned for typing out on this site. Worse than you can possibly imagine. That’s something society needs to address, and as an individual I cannot convince other people how bad it is or how extreme of action we need to take. And not for lack of trying.
It’s good threads like this spread awareness, but reduction will not further the cause of improving the situation.
There are some cultures that are so female unfriendly it isn’t funny, some of that has to do with religion and some of that doesn’t. That’s also one of the harsh realities of combating things like this because some people actually grew up and learn that women and worth less or some other kind of bullshit.
The other side of this coin is that in books and articles like this and heck even your comment only women get victimized or men get targeted. Yes statistically men are way more the cause of (sexual) abuse, misogyny or whatnot. Same with that women have it statistically worse partially because of some culture and partially because some people are just dicks and/or sick in their head. Some men (especially gay’s, minorities and insecure people) get (sexually_ abused by women or other men, but that generally flies under the radar way more since they are often not believed.
That’s why I always feel the need to mention it just incase it helps somebody down the line. Let’s do better together!
You’re absolutely right about sexual assault against men. I thought what Terry Crews did was heroic. Even when he didn’t want to speak out, he knew he needed to be a leader and he spoke up.
I didn’t leave it out from a lack of concern. I was just making a point by how unsafe women feel in every aspect of their lives, not just occasionally in a Reddit forum.
Trans people, especially black trans people, are targeted in at a whole other level and are often ignored in reporting. They don’t deserve that.
Crazy that we all can’t just respect each others right to live.
Not sure I know exactly what you mean with what Terry Crews did.
I know you didn’t mention it for nefarious reasons or anything. I just wanted to mention it :P
And yeah we should all respect eachother.
Terry Crews was sexually assaulted by the head of a Hollywood talent agency while at a party in 2016.
Initially, he was embarrassed and angry. He didn’t want to talk about it, but after talking to his wife and seeing what the Weinstein accusers were doing, he decided to speak up about it. Seems that he wanted men to know to know it can happen to them too and to not be afraid to speak up.
I think it’s really important for other men (and other genders) to see that. Maybe more people will be brave enough to speak out too.
That you don’t know is a depressingly perfect example of how effectively this has been marginalized by society. Fuck.
To be fair I don’t live in the US so it’s entirely possible that it hasn’t even been mentioned in my circles.
That’s why I always feel the need to mention it just incase it helps somebody down the line. Let’s do better together!
If someone is talking about an issue, it is not helpful to bring up a different issue. They are not dismissing the other issue, it’s simply not the topic being discussed. To bring up another issue when one is trying to be discussed is actually dismissive of the problem at hand. It’s like you’re trying to change the subject. You should not try to bring awareness of a problem on the thread of a different problem. Just create a thread about the problem, where the subject at hand can be that alone. If you made a post about men being victimized, and someone said “but what about women being victimized” I’m sure you could see that being problematic and dismissive.
You are absolutely going to see more posts about women being victimized. That does not mean people do not care about victimized men, it just means it’s happening to women more often. There should absolutely be support and a movement for men. But, at least right now, it is separate from the movement for women.
I disagree it’s a different problem, it’s the same problem besides the gender.
It is a different problem though. Men do no have the same systematic sexism women face. There are absolutely problems men face, but they are different. Women are much more often taken advantage of, abused, and discriminated against for their sex. So when we talk about womens problems, to then mention mens problems is pulling away attention from the problems women face. Men have historically held most, if not all, the power. That is still true to this day. Men abuse that power over women more than women abuse that power over men.
Not to mention, the problems men face when coming out about abuse are ENTIRELY different problems than a woman faces, like you said so yourself. That alone seems to me like the issues are different, meaning they would have different solutions to them. Thus, their movements would be two separate movements.
It’s not just about how you’re treated by these communities, it’s how they work mechanically.
For example, on reddit if you engage with these people, you will not only be deleted and banned from their sub, you will also be auto-banned by a bunch of opposing subs. You get one chance to participate before you need to circumvent the platform by creating a new account.
It’s simply not feasible to engage with them online in this way, and that’s ignoring the time and emotional energy you need to spend to do it in the first place.
The issue needs to addressed at a societal level. As a society we value all the wrong things in men and few of the right things. A lot of these guys end up in these communities specifically because they feel they can’t meet the ludicrous standards created for them, and place the blame solely on women instead of our wider culture.
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Choosing to fuck a piece of shit, when you know they’re a piece of shit, doesn’t make you a victim, and I’m not entertaining this pity party claim that everyone fucking a MAGA asshole is in an abusive relationship. They aren’t. But I feel for the ones who are.
Also you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said these men were “misunderstood”. I explained how they got there in the first place. Their beliefs and actions are clear as day. I do not sympathize with them more than abused women. But you don’t want to engage my actual points, you want to set up a straw man and pull your self-righteous, self-pitying manipulative bullshit instead, which is exactly what I knew would happen.
If you dine with a Nazi, you are a Nazi. If you befriend a Nazi, you are a Nazi. If you fuck a Nazi, you are a Nazi.
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In my college there was a flyer in the restroom about how something like 1 in 6 women will experience sexual assault or rape.
And that was shown to be complete horseshit arrived at by defining ‘sexual assault or rape’ in a survey more broadly than any reasonable person ever would.
It’s similar to the survey in the 80s all the ACABers cite to claim 40% of cops are domestically violence–in that survey, even if a voice was raised one time in the past six months, and it was the cop’s spouse yelling at the cop, that survey dumped the relationship in the domestic violence bucket. Big surprise that 40% figure has never been replicated since, lol.
One example: at the end of a first date that you weren’t really feeling, the guy goes in for a kiss and you decline? Guess what, even if he completely accepts the denial and the date ends without incident, that went in the “sexual assault” bucket, regardless of whether the woman herself felt anything bad had happened.
Ever had sex while less than stone cold sober (keep in mind the entirety of the surveyed considered to arrive at this figure were college students)? Survey says you were raped. Doesn’t matter if you were just tipsy, doesn’t matter if you and your partner were equally drunk, doesn’t matter whether you think you were raped/assaulted, nope, we decided you were.
Stuff like that is the only way to get to a figure so absurd.
First of all, the Washington Examiner is a right-wing news outlet. They have a bias in there reporting and it shows.
Second, the number of sexual assaults on campus is likely significantly higher according to more recent information.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/04/news-campus-sexual-assault
Last, if someone assaults a person who doesn’t believe they were assaulted, does that count?
Ever had sex while less than stone cold sober (keep in mind the entirety of the surveyed considered to arrive at this figure were college students)? Survey says you were raped. Doesn’t matter if you were just tipsy, doesn’t matter if you and your partner were equally drunk, doesn’t matter whether you think you were raped/assaulted, nope, we decided you were.
What is that person had passed out drunk and doesn’t remember it? Is it rape now? What if that person has a learning disability or communication disability? Do you think that’s rape?
My point here is that something can be true if the person isn’t aware of it. I presume people are also more likely to say they’ve received unwanted physical interactions than to say they were raped.
You know, society used to think you couldn’t rape your wife either.
Why are you proposing scenarios other than the ones I used to specifically exemplify the fact that the measure of sexual assault/rape was massively overinflated?
Do you think “but what about the situations that are rape” is a counterargument to that? My point is that they counted a lot MORE in ADDITION to those legitimate scenarios, and that’s why such a scary number was arrived at.
The bottom line fact is, no survey etc. that doesn’t massively dilute the definitions of those terms has ever or will ever reach a conclusion like “1 in 5 female college students have been sexually assaulted or raped”. There is a reason that figure isn’t being thrown around anymore these days–it’s been debunked thoroughly.
I feel like I’m in a different universe to most people. Only chance I get to call anyone out for anything is littering and playing music loudly in public. Honestly feels like confirmation bias, but I’m sure I’m wrong.
I mean, if you went to 4chan you could presumably call out more, but it’d be kind of like yelling into a hurricane. Toxicity is self-concentrating in really anonymous online spaces.
IRL bigots tend to hide their shit from non-target non-bigots.
Toxicity is self-concentrating in really anonymous online spaces.
The cause of and consequences of The Man-o-Sphere in a nutshell. People get drawn in by the promise of gamified easy answers to relationships (via PUA community, evangelist trad-life influencers, and other self-help gurus). But it’s a bait-and-switch, with “advice” drifting from “how to find an easy relationship” into “why women are awful and you should hate them.”
If it makes you feel any better, I can ping you next time I encounter misogyny on Lemmy? It’s far less toxic than a lot of online places, but it’s definitely got corners where offensive takes get upvoted.
Davies was contacted by seven men over seven days who had all been scammed or catfished by seven different fake accounts that were using her images. She wrote an Instagram post to warn others and a BBC journalist got in touch, leading to her first documentary When Nudes Are Stolen. This was life-changing. “It was the first time that I had sat down with campaigners and experts who laid all those images out and said that what happened to me wasn’t OK,” she says. “No one had ever said that before. No one had ever said: ‘It wasn’t your fault.’ It was such a moment for me. It lifted the weight off my shoulders.”
Good Lord, that’s depressing. When people take advantage of you, it’s not your fault. What is this world doing to people?
It’s insane to me that the greatest threat to women is dating men. Who the hell is raising these guys? Even in my worst days I never blamed women for my dating problems - I blamed myself. Therapy helped with that problem though. But the motives of mass misogyny are just opaque to me. Sort your shit guys, don’t be a bastard.
The internet is raising them. They aren’t going outside and saying these things where at least one man would smack him upside the head in order to correct bad behavior. They aren’t going outside and trying this shit on women who will reject their bad behaviors. Or worse running to legal trouble for harassing or assaulting women. Whereby it used to be the guy would self reflect and realize he’s doing it wrong.
The internet is telling them stories about how these behaviors are what the “alpha” males are doing to successfully get all the women. What is the bullshit stat? Like 1% of top men get 99% of women or some stupid shit.
The internet lies to them, painting a dark twisted world. And then these guys go out to the real world to treat women in the way they think the world is some kind of dark world. They get extreme negative experiences. Which to them proves that the internet was right about everything.
They aren’t going outside and saying these things where at least one man would smack him upside the head in order to correct bad behavior.
Expecting men to beat the shit out of people doing the “wrong” things is also a really big problem and isn’t a solution either.
I remember in the late 80s when i was really young hearing about gay bashing as if it was a perfectly okay thing to group to and go do.
I remember people talking about Freddie Mercury coming out as gay and not feeling comfortable asking why that is a problem for fear of being targeted myself.
I don’t have any answers
beat the shit out of people
It’s not literal. You seriously don’t know what social conditioning is???
gay bashing
I have no clue how you derived homophobia from this.
This is either a troll or poor reading comprehension.
edit: I just saw your other replies. You’re being deliberately obtuse to derail the thread.
Make people feel bad about who they are through intimidation and violence. It’s not okay unless you are “over if there good ones”
“It’s not literal!”
Cool cool cool
Meanwhile concentration camps are in vogue
A rapist and convicted felon is the POTUS
And Andrew Tate is the new young mans hero.
Yeah im so unhinged
In the 80s and 90s we always called our friends gay but to me it was just friendly ribbing.
One ex friend we did beat the fuck out of for hitting his girlfriend.
This is unhinged and nonsensical, either you have poor English reading comprehension or this is a troll post. I’ll let mods decide.
I say let it stand as a testament. Incels bring out the big guns when you get too close to reality. I’ve noticed this pattern over the years.
The propaganda is something to behold. This is the kind of thing young men are being bombarded with.
I say let it stand as a testament.
I know you’re joking around, but I’ll take advantage of the moment to rant on a tangent for a bit. I legit saw this attitude spreading through the moderator space on reddit a decade ago, as they started getting influenced by users to let slide more and more horrible takes so that “the community can judge for themselves” as tender, shut-in lads and lasses who were trying to manage our largest discussion forums without pay were suddenly being bombarded from all sides by people trying to subvert the subreddits and control them for their own agendas.
And largely, it worked. Many, many times I’ve seen subreddits and forums on other sites fall because the mods got compromised, the other mods got too burned out or emotional to keep doing their tasks, and as a result the conversations started allowing more and more incel-bait, tired tropes of persecution and misogyny, foulmouthed, delusional teenagers who have never left their houses suddenly making profound statements about the state of gender dynamics, and a whole ARMY of foreigners pretending to be normal Americans or Europeans on both sides of every argument, just screaming their nonsense louder and louder until the only users left were the ones who agreed with the delusion. I wish people understood that some of the most famous horrible subreddits and sites started as jokes and were gradually co-opted and hijacked to become unironic hate-spaces.
This was the plan all across the internet and it worked. We are all so tired of every argument and issue that most people don’t engage anymore. We don’t even try to correct anyone because we assume either other users know better, or will sort it out for us, or who cares anyway, what’s even real? Just tune out, keep scrolling.
So now I say, no. We need to be far less tolerant of intolerance, we need to burn them out of their nests and dens. Reddit didn’t go nearly far enough with banning the incel subs, they should have banned incel ideology, they should have banned redpill rhetoric entirely. I once would have balked at that kind of “censorship” but I’m now watching my nation dissolve under the stupidest movement ever created and I’m somewhere between shaking with rage and shaking with exhaustion.
Redpill, incel, gender-normative bullshit is violence. It seeks to hurt men by forcing them into the mold of “masculinity” (and defines that masculinity, in some places, in a very toxic fashion) and we all know how it hurts women.
It needs to be fought back, and as furiously as fascism.
This sentiment is why i commented. It does need to be pushed back against. Thank you
Point taken. Looks like the guy is standing pat with his full blown alternate reality narraive. And he’s still gotten more upvotes inspite of being so unabashedly in bad faith.
Ah well I wish mods would have nuked the whole comment chain.
Care to explain how I’m unhinged?
Speaking of poor reading skills, im specifically referring to physical abuse as a form or deterrent.
Maybe you havent experienced physical abuse, but i have.
I felt like I understood your original post, so I hope you’re okay if I try to bridge the misunderstandings? If at any point I misunderstood, let me know.
They aren’t going outside and saying these things where at least one man would smack him upside the head in order to correct bad behavior.
Expecting men to beat the shit out of people doing the “wrong” things is also a really big problem and isn’t a solution either.
I feel like this boils down to: having men use physical violence to coerce other men into “proper” behavior isn’t the solution. The scare-quotes around “wrong” imply the term being potentially misused.
I remember in the late 80s when i was really young hearing about gay bashing as if it was a perfectly okay thing to group to and go do.
You note that groups used violence against gay people in the 80s, and that it was considered acceptable. I read this and the next sentence as being an example, provided to support your first sentence.
I remember people talking about Freddie Mercury coming out as gay and not feeling comfortable asking why that is a problem for fear of being targeted myself.
The fear of violence was such a severe deterrent, that even questioning why being gay was “wrong” could have led the group to assume you were gay and thus become violent against you.
I don’t have any answers
Although you don’t believe in corporal punishment, you don’t know what the answer would be. (Which is totally fair, IMO.)
Is that the gist of what you meant?
If so, I suspect people lost track of your point around the term “gay bashing.” Most people these days probably associate that term with someone speaking poorly of gay people, which sucks, but is relatively tame compared to what I thought you meant - which was, groups that went around literally bashing, as in physically attacking, gay people. (Which was, and still is in some places, an absolutely real thing.) It’s possible that this misunderstanding derailed the rest of your comment, leading readers away from your point.
Thank you, that’s a pretty fair assessment.
This was what I took away from his comment as well. His personal experience with physical abuse likely lead him to interpret “slapped upside the head” in a more visceral way than I think OP intended. The jump in ‘rhetorical spiciness’ tends to prime the reader a certain way. He expressed his doubt and confusion but only after bringing up a seemingly unrelated (and potentially bigoted) example.
Nobody understands a thing you’re saying, I think you don’t grasp the concept of “context” like so many internet drones. I’m blocking you now, have a good day
Lemmy is such a friendly place…
Yeah, I tend to think that men who’d want dating women would be easier would form an organization and lynch those fucks.
Emotionally, I want to agree with you, but lynching is almost always going to hit the wrong people, too. The well connected teacher/coach/advisor who likes to prey on girls is not going to be hit, but the black guy who happens to be at the wrong spot at the wrong time, and triggers all the “we must protect our women!1!” ?
it’s so easy.
It’s insane to me that the greatest threat to women is dating men
Yet men are the leading cause of death for women. You’re correct, it is absolutely insane, but until those types of men can sort out their fragile masculinity problems here we are unfortunately.
What? That’s not correct at all. The leading cause of death for women is heart disease, which accounts for approximately one in three female deaths each year. “Men” or any derivatives thereof on most statistical lists are below even common mosquitoes (malaria) as causes of death. A woman is more likely to be killed by their own kidneys than by a man.
Don’t spread needless culture war scare bullshit.
Source: The goddamn CDC.
the hairs prickling up on her legs
Some incel somewhere: “WTF IS THIS WOKE BULLSHIT!?!?!?!”
Sending unwarranted dick picks should get you a sizeable fine, maybe 600 bucks and a 2 year registry in a sex offender list.
Give you a choice to stop fucking up and if you escalate and keep doing it then things get worse for oyu.
Unsolicited naked pics have no place in society. We’re not talking porn here, we’re talking Joe sending a picture of his schlong to Mary like she is going to be ohh yeah let’s do that.
People with that mindset are seriously damaging other people. They’re the reason women are afraid to go on walks at dusk.
The penalty for that deserves some staying power. You’re on the list; to get off the list, you need counseling and a psych eval. I’d go so far as to say mandatory house arrest until you get the counseling and eval.
its weird and gross to do, but like how is seeing people naked so bothering to you people?? would a nude beach cause you to have a brain hemorrhage?. if I see something like that it doesn’t hurt me mentally somehow??
to you people?
Seeing naked people is fine, if someone asks for it.
Someone forcing you to see them naked for their own pleasure is rapey.
I understand the intentions behind it, but I’ve never given a crap when someone sends me a dick pic. I just block them and move on with my day. It just seems like people in this comment section over react to this. (the other stuff is fucked up though)
Ignoring the problem is the right individual move, but as a society, it simply tells the person doing it that it’s ok and there won’t be consequences for it.
It’s a dick pick for you today, but it might be their unwilling coworker in the alley when they work themselves up to it.
It’s a psychiatric issue and if everyone ignores it, it won’t just go away, it just becomes someone else’s problem.
The difference between the nude beach and getting unsolicited dick pics, is if you go to a nude beach, you kinda agreed to see naked people.
Why an expiry? It’s the digital equivalent of flashing someone. In australia that gets you a six month sentence, a $1,100 fine, or both.
It would limit watering down the register with ‘minor’ offenses. It would also help avoid trapping an idiot teen in a negative spiral, due to a stupid drunken mistake 10 years previously.
If a teen made a “studpid drunken mistake” flashing someone in the street and copped the same, would you feel they had been unfairly penalised?
Context matters a lot. However, in general, it’s a far lower crime than many in that category. Critically, it’s not of the level to be desirable to destroy their future over. The punishment should be enough to deter and correct, but not more.
Many/most of us have been idiotic teens before. Society’s goal should be to correct and improve. Not go in with sledgehammers aimed at skulls. In many cases, the embarrassment alone would be enough to do the job. The law just needs to drive that point home.
which is why underaged are charged differently. Dismissing shit as “Idiot teens” when talking about deliberate exposure of your genitals to unwilling parties really smacks of Stubenville though.
This is a crime that we let get normalised. Don’t continue the normalisation.
Idiot teen is an explanation, not a dismissal. Nowhere did I say to ignore it. My point is that there is a gradient of both crimes and intents. If there is no matching gradient in legal response, then it can lead to injustice.
An idiotic crime will often need fairly minor corrections. A malicious crime requires FAR more of a response. Treating all crimes as malicious ends up diluting the view on truly malicious crimes. It can also drive individuals into the very situation you want to move them away from.
What if they were banned from owning a smartphone or any camera phone? And banned from social media?
Impossible to enforce
Some countries manage to enforce it better. But I agree it would be more difficult to enforce this in the west.
If anyone is unsure why women would chose the bear…
Most young men and women choose not to date. “Choosing the bear” isn’t limited to one gender. And yes, I understand it, at least partially. It’s rough out there.
Social division as a result of people not socializing anymore has driven a massive wedge between the diverse and beautiful spectrum of people who used to find appreciation and joy in each others differences.
Now every time you meet someone with different feelings than yourself, the internet has trained you to feel attacked.
This is why we’re all alone, we’re afraid of being attacked, and somehow our definitions of what an attack is has been radically subverted.
99% of men are disgusted by this type of thing, but with billions of people and instant communication. this type of thing is bound to pop up. and because normal people aren’t looking at this type of thing, they’re echo chambers of degeneracy. but it really bothers me when people use sex based generalizations for things like this. millions of people isn’t very much on a global scale.
I think it is more widespread than you imagine. If admiration for Andrew Tate is an indicator of seriously misogynistic attitudes, then the statistics (for the UK) are quite shocking:
Nearly a quarter (23%) of 15-16-year-old boys have a positive view of Andrew Tate compared to only 10% of girls at this age.
Furthermore, one-third of dads (32%) view Andrew Tate favourably compared to 10% of mums. This positive view is even higher among young dads: 52% of 25-34-year-old dads compared to 19% of mums.
Additionally, 49% of 25-34-year-old dads believe their child has a positive view of Andrew Tate.
Source: https://www.internetmatters.org/hub/research/research-into-online-misogyny-and-image-based-abuse/
Man these numbers are horrific we need to bring back McCarthyism but for these people
Are you or have you ever been a supporter of Andrew Tate
bring back McCarthyism
Fuck outta here with that authoritarian bullshit. You truly want to hold millions of people responsible for falling victim to Zuck getting high off Cambridge Analytica and globalizing the flood-gates of shit spewing? Content serving algorithms have torn communities apart, promoted violence and hate world-wide for most of the past 20 years. That’s plenty of time for ‘re-education’ and here we are reaping the benefits.
Hurt people hurt people. Human billionaires hurt society. Generational wealth oppressing generational trauma. Authoritarianism leads to the same power imbalance, and purging ideologies is anti-human.
Not when the ideologies in question are anti-human it’s not
Yeah, I’ll give you that one.
Maybe my opinion is influenced by my geographic position. I never would have imagined that many people of my generation support him. Where I live, saying you like Andrew Tate would be like saying you support Putin, maybe worse.
Then I’ve got some bad news for you about Putin, too.
99% of men are disgusted by this type of thing
wow. naive.
Yeah, these days I’m thinking it might actually be a double digit percentage that’s onboard. The manosphere has enough reach to affect elections now, which I did not see coming.
I get called a conspiracist for linking the actual reports and investigations into this, but this was by design.
Almost every authoritarian/fascist uprising on record has started with the indoctrination and isolation of young, sexually insecure, lonely men who feel disenfranchised with the system because they’re depressed, horny and have mixed-up ideas how to be liked by others. It’s incredibly easy to peel off a massive chunk of this population and get them to start blaming the government, society broadly, science, knowledge, literally anything but their own need to improve their social skills and gain some emotional intelligence.
These are our dumbest, angriest, loudest men, and thus become the major influencing factor on their peers, online and off. They set the tone and everyone else just kind of goes along with it, or leaves them to grow and gain power in peace.
This shit is why I think regular therapy sessions should be a mandatory part of high school for everyone. Kids need better tools to deal with the shit they’re going through.
A few old-fashioned morons go a parent-teacher meeting and scream “We never had all this psychotherapy bullshit when I was a kid!” And everyone mummers to each other that yeah, we can’t impose our reason-based evaluation of reality on someone else’s ignorance, that wouldn’t be American!
Then their kid goes back to school the next day and continues to inflict a lifes with of trauma on their peers.
i did. saw it in 2016 and had a hunch before that.
the only thing that shocks me anymore is how naive most of you are.
As a man, it’s also reasonable to say this is nearly non existent among women. Does it happen? Of course. But not nearly to the scale it happens among men.
It’s moreso a matter of semantics. If someone says “Men are disgusting”, you don’t have to take it literally. It’s conveying the meaning that there is a large enough amount of men that are doing this that it is a massive problem in nearly every woman’s life. The saying would be a bit less valid if it was so extremely prevalent. But as it stands, I can go up to just about any young woman, and they more than likely would have (at least) been sexually harassed by a man.
So sure, with as many people as there are, it’s “bound to pop up” but saying it that way seems to undermine just how prevalent it is. And correcting a statement that expresses the sentiment that this is a large problem by saying “But not all men are bad” is counterproductive. They are talking about the systematic issue among men. You could instead respond with “Yea, we need systematic changes” or something along the lines that address the concern they are raising.
But as it stands, I can go up to just about any young woman, and they more than likely would have (at least) been sexually harassed by a man.
Thats’s most certainly accurate, since in the US, 1 in 5 women have been raped over the course of their lives.
So, Sexual harassment would be far more likely. I’d guess, 4 in 5 women, if not 5 outta 5.
When I said it’s “bound to pop up” I was talking specifically about the online communities mentioned. I don’t disagree that there are systemic problems but I think that they were focusing on a specific and small subset of a larger problem.
I might be wrong about this, correct me if that’s so. but because most men aren’t rapists, yet a surprisingly high number of women get sexually assaulted/raped, It seems like the problem is not that most men are predators, but that our society is letting the minority that are get away with it repeatedly.
because most men aren’t rapists, yet a surprisingly high number of women get sexually assaulted/raped, It seems like the problem is not that most men are predators, but that our society is letting the minority that are get away with it repeatedly.
It’s much muddier than that. Most cases of rape are someone the victim trusted. And most of those cases don’t ever get reported to authorities. So there are many men may have taken advantage of a woman, and that woman see’s him as an abuser, but nearly nobody in that mans life even knows about this. The victim may stay silent for any number of reasons. There are almost definitely cases like that involving men you know, but are unaware of what they did. As for the solution to these cases? Societal norms need to change. Consent needs to be required every time no matter what. There should never be pressure for sex, and peers should not encourage pressuring a woman into sex. Instead, the man will say the person stepping in is “cock blocking” when in reality they’re defending someone who doesn’t want to have sex with them. Men will back up other men in an attempt to help their bro “get their dick wet”. They will get women drunk in hopes they will have reduced inhibitions, or perhaps so drunk they don’t even remember the night. This is not as simple as “lock up the bad guys” when very few cases of rape involve being snatched up off the street.
When I said it’s “bound to pop up” I was talking specifically about the online communities mentioned.
Gotcha, I misunderstood what you were saying. I do still disagree that groups like that are bound to pop up, at least not as much as they are right now. I think womanizing groups are far more common than dedicated racist groups online. Racism has taken a massive downward trend over the last hundred years. Of course, it is not fixed, very far from it. But I also think it is undeniable that racism is less of a problem than it was 50 years ago. That is the kind of societal change we want. If the internet were around 50 years ago, the insane number of group chats dedicated to racism would have been far larger than they are now. Bringing awareness to these issues, and especially men standing up to other men, is what will help bring a decline to the number of vocal sexist pigs and their echo chambers.
It’s the same as everywhere, those who scream the loudest get heard
I just like that she calls out and lumps in 4chan with Reddit and Discord—because that’s really what’s it’s become now. I mean there are dicks lurking and active in any corner of the Internet but those platforms in particular are obviously mainstream enough or known to harbor all kinds… especially the kind she talks about.
Transitioning to male and having the amount of sexual harassment and catcalling I get in public reduced by like half (still look ambiguous) has been crazy. I was followed home by a car recently, they yelled at me to join them, I responded “what??” with my now deepened voice and they said “nevermind” and drove away. I think about that a lot and what may have happened if they’d done that a year earlier
AI will fix this. Everyone will have nudes of everyone, and nobody will believe anything is real.
Even watching porn will be weird, when you can only assume what youre watching is a computer trying its best to not turn the womens bumhole into a picture of a dog.
I don’t know, photoshop exists, and it hasn’t stopped anything so far.
AI makes it easier, but may not do much to stop it.
Just look at Facebook, or the puff-jacket late pope. People do take AI-generated posts as the real thing so much of the time.
Photoshop is still too much effort and requires some skill.
Once you can tell ChatGPT to “to make me some nudes of my classmate Alice” then that will change.
Just look at drones. RC planes existed for ages but you needed some skills to assemble and use them. Now you can buy them ready made and now we need all sorts of regulations that idiots aren’t flying them over airports.
I, however, don’t subscribe to the notion that it will normalize nudes. Those will be still used to bully those girls cause sadly people don’t really need a reason to and that counts double for the young in school or collage.
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Misogyny and misandry, two unhappy twins; one celebrated, the other shunned. Both found their way into this thread.
That’s enough internet for today I think.
Except they’re not at all the same, you understand that, right? Misogyny is build upon layers of social and systemic discrimination
I invite you to look into the term misandry some more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry
Trusting a wikipedia link to make your point for you doesn’t work any better on lemmy than it did on reddit. In case anyone is curious, a couple excerpts from wikipedia
In the Internet Age, users posting on manosphere internet forums such as 4chan and subreddits addressing men’s rights activism have claimed that misandry is widespread, established in preferential treatment of women, and shown by discrimination against men.
[…]
Men’s rights activists invoke the idea of misandry in warning against what they see as the advance of a female-dominated society. The idea of feminism as threatening towards men, encapsulated in the term misandry, forms a core part of the vocabulary of the manosphere and is used within the men’s rights movement to counter feminist accusations of misogyny.They aren’t equivalent-but-gender-flipped terms anymore, because “misandry” has been hijacked by the incels as a dogwhistle and convenient catchall term to dismiss concerns exactly like what’s in this thread. While I don’t think HexesofVexes intended this, they’re conflating the two terms to be equivalent in meaning which, when taken in context, just simply isn’t true.
At the root it’s a very difficult topic to address, let me change my language a little to avoid the politics implied by the room.
When you generalise a negative trait to a particular gender, you are making a sexist and hateful comment. The “emotional woman” and the “deceitful gold digger”, the “violent man” and the “potential rapist” - the former would lead to a talk with HR, the latter leads to open agreement and often accolade.
The argument made for this discrepancy is that it is redressing the systemic sexism built into our society, but I think that it has ceased to do so and us now fuelling the misogyny more than it is addressing it.
There is a need to redress societal imbalance that disadvantages women - however hatred only breeds more hatred. The path currently taken is wrong, and history will show that to be true.
